Public opinion on China's Ministry of State Security's espionage activities is notably mixed. While many express significant concerns about China's influence and capability in espionage—particularly regarding technology theft and impacts on international relations—there is also a resigned acknowledgment of espionage as a historical constant. The negative sentiment is primarily driven by fears surrounding national security and global technological dominance, alongside skepticism towards current countermeasures.

China's Ministry of State Security

International technology companies

Global governments

Diligent_Ferret_2661

What was the NYTs article being questioned?

edit: [you linked](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/27/us/politics/china-cia-spy-mss.html) it my bad

&gt; investing resources in non-transmission areas such as economics and technology

What does this mean?

&gt; the ideas they convey are completely consistent with those of the upper echelons

This is perhaps an optimistic statement. Chinese media frequently reports bubbling sentiments which do not pan out or are later retracted. And while the censors are good at scrubbing old content of old ideas, if we take an issue like gaming, then Chinese media and Chinese upper echelons were totally in line about how harmful it was until the stocks tanked and suddenly those upper echelons are fired and new sentiments are promulgated. Perhaps we can say fast followers and diligent followers.

Some Chinese academic journals also do have integrity. They frequently acknowledge PLA deficiencies or economic deficiencies, that would never be admitted in a Global Times polemic. There are several journals that produce sentiment that matches what Western think tanks produce- which disagrees with what the gov't or SOEs will say in a presser. Frankly, to see the limits of what I'll call the civil-media fusion, look at how Peking University has been gutted over the last 10 years just to get them to shut up

emprahsFury

Theres an element if truth in every lie. That's what's makes it believable. With China and other foreign power's messages becoming more consistent and on message of course you could sus out the conclusion or extrapolate a reasonable and likely one. Saying that there's probably an intelligence asset that either gave the conclusion first or at least verified it was the correct one is a very slippery slope because how do you double or triple verify that a vetted source isnt also the poison in the well. Remember to a certain extent the PLA has really written the first edition on effective leadership through fear, propaganda and misinformation.  Just because an intelligence source says it's an accurate conclusion doesn't necessarily mean that it truly is. 

Everyone is the perfect candidate for security clearance  on paper until they aren't. 

Build a million bridges and your bill the bridge builder, but you fuck one goat and......

ShitpostFactory

"Spies and Lies by Alex Joske is a groundbreaking exposé of elite influence operations by China's little-known Ministry of State Security. Revealing for the first time how the Chinese Communist Party has tasked its spies to deceive the world, it challenges the conventional account of China's past, present and future.

Mere years ago, Western governments chose to cooperate with China in the hope that it would liberalize, setting aside concerns about human rights abuses, expansionism and espionage. But the axiom of China's 'peaceful rise' has been fundamentally challenged by the Chinese Communist Party's authoritarian behavior under Xi Jinping.

How did we get it wrong for so long?

Spies and Lies pierces the Ministry of State Security's walls of secrecy and reveals how agents of the Chinese Communist Party have spent nearly 40 years manipulating Western leaders' attitudes – from an Australian prime minister to the US Congress, prominent think tanks and the FBI – about China's rise. Through interviews with defectors and intelligence officers, classified Chinese intelligence documents and original investigations, the book unmasks dozens of active Chinese intelligence officers along with global MSS fronts including travel agencies, writers associations, publishing houses, alumni associations, newspapers, Buddhist retreats, a record company and charities.

Spies and Lies is an extraordinary insight into the most successful influence operation in history, one which has fooled the West for years, and indispensable reading."

KuJiMieDao

I liked this podcast episode for understanding the surveillance apparatus bit better. 


[The Sentinel State: Surveillance and the Survival of Dictatorship in China](https://www.csis.org/podcasts/pekingology/sentinel-state)

[deleted]

Oh yes.

Actual spycraft isn’t some James Bond flick.

Sometimes it’s as simple as contacting someone in the area, and paying them to take photos of some area with a phone.

ninetailedoctopus

We have intel-sharing sa mga bansang katulad ng US at Israel.

Matagal nang walang HUMINT ang NICA.

Spacelizardman

meron dati sa qatar yata yun  during sa panahon ni arroyo may binalita na may naarestong mga pinoy due to alleged  espoinage, according dun sa qatari authorities, hindi sinabi kung ano yung ginawa at papano yung spying activities ,  pero sa china na may spying na ginagawa ang mga pinoy dun , tingin ko propaganda or pwde  imbento nila yan ang masama ,kung napagbintangan sila or planado na gawan  sila nang kaso , ska duda ako na pupunta sila dun mismong sa mainland pa nang china para mag spy for what??  much posible pa kung mag eespoinage lng  yung mga pinoy   dun  malapit  sa port  nang hainan island or southern china dahil andun yung submarine bases and yung mlaking naval station nang china,  and besides CHINA ang isa sa mga bansa  na expert pag dating sa espoinage or spying activities they have a extensive network ,at may budget sila dyan  ginagastusan nila yan kita nio nmn sa mga nahuling spy dito sa pilipinas  hi tech yung gamit ..maybe pang leverage nila yan dun sa mga nahuli nang nbi

Affectionate-Bad9449

Of course. Worked with NICA agents before during APEC 2015. May mga nahuhuli pa nga na spies natin but di pinapublicize usually in the name of diplomatic niceties.

F16Falcon_V

Yes. If Al Queda and Mexican Cartels could do it our Intel Agency could do it as well.

gottymacanon

Wala tayo budget diyan. The only chance to get one is on murky waters. 


Budget ng intel is coming dapat from CF.

Darkened_Alley_51

The state sponsored ASD are way worse.

They can keep an innocent target in a surveillance scheme where they can target him for life using their contracted programs like AWS for cloud sec on downloading the persons metadata and AI programs for developing mind reading technologies.

Communication are also hacked for any conversation and Meta services for its third party applications.

Google for its search engine activities and their satellite radio comms for disrupting everyones handsets, mobile phones and radios.

This is an expose of what they do and the people needs to be informed of what they are capable of.

dadaduckkk

Should've done the hacking from India then it would've been ok.

galemaniac

&gt; Linwei Ding had been working at Google’s California headquarters for four years when he booked a one-way ticket to Beijing and, on Boxing Day, handed in his notice.

&gt; The resignation prompted questions at the tech giant’s security team, which had already been investigating Ding. A few weeks earlier, Ding had insisted he had no plans to quit when he was confronted about unusual activity on his employee account.

&gt; After reviewing CCTV footage, investigators found that several weeks earlier the Chinese national had convinced a colleague to scan his access badge at Google’s offices, creating the illusion he was at work.

&gt; Ding had, in fact, been thousands of miles away in China – presenting himself as the chief executive of a company called Zhisuan and seeking to raise funds. On January 6, the day before his flight was due to leave, FBI agents raided his house and seized his devices and passport.

&gt; Earlier this year, the US Justice Department charged Ding, 38, with stealing trade secrets from Google. Prosecutors said he had uploaded more than 500 files related to Google’s artificial intelligence technology to a personal account in an attempt to launch his own companies in China.

&gt; “We will fiercely protect sensitive technologies developed in America from falling into the hands of those who should not have them,” Merrick Garland, the US attorney general, vowed.

&gt; Ding has pleaded not guilty. If convicted, he could face decades in prison.

&gt; But his case is far from unique. Silicon Valley companies have become a growing target for corporate espionage and trade theft.

&gt; In recent years the US government has charged individuals with stealing technology from companies including Tesla, Apple and IBM and seeking to transfer it to China, often successfully.

&gt; Last year, the intelligence chiefs of the “Five Eyes” nations clubbed together at Stanford University – the cradle of Silicon Valley innovation – to warn technology companies that they are increasingly under threat.

&gt; “If you are operating at the cutting edge of tech in this decade, you may not be interested in geopolitics, but geopolitics is interested in you,” said Ken McCallum, MI5’s director general.

&gt; Spying is nothing new in Silicon Valley, which owes its status as an innovation powerhouse to buckets of US government spending during the Cold War, funding processors that could target missiles and put men on the moon.

&gt; Soviet agents routinely tried to acquire microchip know-how and plans, although Moscow’s attempts to match US mastery failed. A decade ago, Saudi agents infiltrated Twitter to obtain data on thousands of accounts and unmask dissidents who used the social network to criticise the regime.

&gt; But an increasingly assertive China, which has ambitions to match the US as a technology superpower, has radically stepped up its activity.

&gt; Beijing’s mission to acquire cutting edge tech has been given greater urgency by strict US export controls, which have cut off China’s supply of advanced microchips and artificial intelligence systems. Ding, the former Google employee, is accused of stealing blueprints for the company’s AI chips

&gt; This has raised suspicions that the technology is being obtained illegally. US officials recently launched an investigation into how advanced chips had made it into a phone manufactured by China’s Huawei, amid concerns it is illegally bypassing a volley of American sanctions. Huawei has denied the claims.

&gt; American officials fear that cutting edge chips or AI expertise could boost Chinese military capabilities. A Department of Defense report last year warned that AI could be used to identify US weaknesses and control autonomous weapons.

&gt; Last week it emerged that researchers linked to the People’s Liberation Army had used Meta’s technology to develop an AI tool for military applications. Meta has said any such use is “unauthorised and contrary to our acceptable use policy”.

&gt; “As controls tighten, China’s incentive to procure off-limits technology increases,” says William Hannas, a former CIA official now at the Centre for Security and Emerging Technology.

&gt; Zach Dorfman, an investigative journalist based in the San Francisco Bay Area, says Chinese intelligence has always had a presence in the region due to the substantial Chinese diaspora there. Demonstrations supporting the Falun Gong movement, which opposes the Chinese Communist Party, are frequent sights in the city.

&gt; “There has been a decades-long influence campaign to try to change diaspora communities to make them more pro-Beijing. You have a giant community, and there’s always going to be marginal folks who can provide support and local assets that you can have on the ground.

&gt; “You’re talking about a tiny fraction of [that] population but you have, potentially, people infiltrating tech companies.”

&gt; Attendees at Silicon Valley parties and tech conferences often enjoy gossiping about who in the room might be a spy – the FBI has a regular stand at CES, the world’s biggest tech show.

&gt; But only occasionally have cases of people stealing technology explicitly for the Chinese state been made public. In 2018, a former IBM employee was sentenced to five years in prison after being charged with stealing source code for Beijing.

&gt; Nigel West, an intelligence expert, says that the theft more often involves Chinese nationals who know they will be able to set up companies back in China with impunity even if they steal technology to do so.

&gt; “Virtually all People’s Republic of China citizens who travel abroad and work in technology companies are allowed by MSS [China’s Ministry of State Security] to steal proprietary information, take it back to China and profit from it, either by exploiting it or to run parallel organisations and companies selling the same kinds of products and services,” West says.

&gt; “It’s state-sponsored by MSS.”

&gt; The pattern is demonstrated by public cases of technology transfer. In June, Klaus Pflugbeil, a Canadian national living in China, pleaded guilty to stealing battery manufacturing secrets from Tesla to set up a business in China.

&gt; At least three former Apple employees have been charged with stealing self-driving car secrets from Apple before attempting to flee the US to profit from them. Two have pleaded guilty, while one based in China has not formally responded to the charges.

&gt; In recent months, tech companies have reportedly stepped up staff screening in an attempt to counter what is seen as a growing Chinese threat. Last year, the US government launched a “Disruptive Technology Strike Force” designed to prevent high-tech secrets being stolen from companies, although a separate Trump-era “China Initiative” was shut down two years ago amid concerns about racial profiling.

&gt; Hannas, the former CIA official, says the West is finally waking up to the problem. “This is not a new problem,” he says. “What’s new is tech companies’ and their national governments’ belated recog

ControlCAD

I'm assuming the entire Western world already knows about this. Cause it's been going on since the 80s.

Mrstrawberry209

We’ve known about it this problem since at least the last season of “Silicon Valley”.

DevilsMasseuse

Perhaps they should stop hiring chinese…

frizzlefry99

You know what….. I respect his hustle. 

jags94

just_a_curious_fella

China's MSS has become the world's largest spy agency, engaging in global espionage, stealing technology, and influencing narratives. The US and other nations are responding with enhanced counter-intelligence.

China's Ministry of State Security (MSS) and Global Espionage Activities

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